The Importance of Communication With Your Team – An Interview With Jeff Hunter

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Jeff Hunter is back with me today, and we're going to talk about the importance of communication - specifically, communication with your team. 

Working with a wonderful group of employees can be one of the most rewarding parts of being a business owner. At the same time, it's essential to have effective ways to communicate with them in order to make sure that problems and misunderstandings don't become blown out of proportion.

Taking the time to clearly explain directions and expectations, as well as spending regular time checking in with your team members, can help ensure that your business runs smoothly. But finding the ideal way to stay connected and foster collaboration is often easier said than done. 

That's why it pays to select communication methods that are tailored specifically for your team and are also secure enough to protect sensitive data. With the right tools in place, you can stay in tune with your staff without sacrificing control over how conversations take place.

That’s why in this episode, Jeff Hunter will share his insights on the importance of communication and how to make sure it happens effectively within your team.

Jeff Hunter of VA Staffer

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Atiba de Souza: Hey! Welcome to the Build Your Team show. I am your host, Atiba. And today I've got one of my favorite guests. Yes, he is a repeat guest. Jeff J. Hunter is with me today and we're gonna talk about communication and communication with your team. Now Jeff's team has grown to 160 people guys or more. He's lost count.

It's that many. But the bottom line is, he knows a thing or two about communication and communication tools. And he's gonna share some stuff with us today on the Build Your Team show. And as always Build Your Team is brought to you by Client Attraction Pros. Hey, it's time that you become the thought leader of your industry, and we're gonna help you do that and make it fast, easy, and fun.

Atiba de Souza: Hey everybody! Welcome to another episode of Build Your Team. Once again, I've got my friend, my buddy, my hat brother, and yes, I am wearing one of his shirts today. The Savage Marketer from VA Staffer, none other than Jeff J. Hunter. Jeff, welcome back! 

Jeff J Hunter: Thank you so much, Atiba. Good to be back.

Atiba de Souza: Yeah. Yeah. So we've got a lot to talk about, right? The last time we had such a great time that we said we're gonna do it again and boom, here it is. We're back again. Now, today we're gonna talk about —

Hey, in case y'all don't know, we're gonna have fun. This is not gonna be some stuffy conversation. Okay. Not between the two of us at least. All right. But let's talk about communication. Talk about having fun. Let's talk about communication because for all of us who are business owners, managing teams, especially these remote teams, foreign remote teams as well, communication becomes a real challenge, right?

So I wanna start here. Just because people like to think that you've got over 200 people working for you now or is it more than that by now knowing you. 

Jeff J Hunter: It's close. It's like 160, 170. I don't know.

I used to keep a lot more track when I had 40 people. But once I got to a hundred, it was like really hard to keep track and plus one of the best things I ever did was remove myself from the whole hiring process. So, I'm not as connected 'cause if you think about it as a leader, if you've got one person on your team, if you've got five people on your team, let's just say four.

If you've got four people on your team that means that each person can get at least 25% of your time. Right? So when you have a hundred, you're at 1% you get 150. You're like way less than that. 

Atiba de Souza: Yeah. Not like 0.6% or something like that. If my math is right. Yeah. So it is not a whole lot of your time that they can get. I totally get that. So which leads right into this conversation about communication. And so here's my first question. Okay. Whether it was when you had 5, 40, or even now at 160, so that everybody understands that we're all on the same page.

Tell me a horror story. A communication horror story. 

Jeff J Hunter: A horror story. Well, I think the horror story is just not having some sort of a growth plan in place, like not changing up when things change. So for example, we started realizing that performance issues are very easy to find when you have 20, 30, 40 people because you have your management team which at the time was two or three people and that's their job.

But when you get to a hundred people, it was just too hard for the managers to keep track of everything and the communication just fell off. So one of the things that we implement — well, before I give you the solution, let me tell you the horror story. The horror story is that people would just not show up to work or something would happen.

And we wouldn't know about it until the client was like, "Yo, where's so and so?" And we're like, "Huh? What do you mean where's so and so?" And they should be at work and they're like, "Well, they haven't been to work for like two days". I'm like "Two days? How does somebody even get — wait, hold on." So what we did was to solve that because there's my horror story, 'cause obviously your reputation is on the line when your people don't show up to work.

'Cause we VA Staffer is a permanent staffing solution. And so back then, this was probably three years ago when I first started realizing this, is that we implemented a attendance channel in Discord. We use Discord for our communication, for our instant communication. So people type in and out.

Okay. And we made a whole new role in the company called a squad leader. When we got to a hundred that's when we broke it up. So we took all hundred people and we broke it up into groups of 10. So it's very much like the famous quote from I believe it was Richard Branson.

Sir Richard Branson, who said that "A team is too big, if you can't feed it with two pizzas".

So — 

Atiba de Souza: Well, at a hundred that's too many. 

Jeff J Hunter: Yeah, exactly. So we broke things down into about 10. A little less than 10. 

Atiba de Souza: Okay. 

Jeff J Hunter: And those squad leaders, their responsibility at the end of their shift, they were able to work an extra, basically 30 minutes of overtime and their extra time, we paid them a little bit more just to oversee them.

It's a little bit of a leadership position, is to check and see their end of day and attendance report. Just to make sure that we can catch it. Right? "Oh, so, and so didn't report today. So, so it didn't put in the full eight hours", whatever, just so it kind of alleviates some of the work that the management team has to do.

Atiba de Souza: Gotcha. 

Jeff J Hunter: So now we have 10 squads. 

Atiba de Souza: Right, right. 

Jeff J Hunter: And now we also have 10 project managers. Just having the team in place to support the growth is really important. And sadly, I didn't build the team until it started breaking and I had to have the people.

Atiba de Souza: Well, and that's part of why we do this conversation because for those of us who've been through for a long time, there's so many lessons that we learned that people who have three people don't even think about just yet that — Hey, now is the time to start thinking about those things before you really start to grow and ramp.

So you know as you grow, how you're going to handle 'em. So that's a really good one. Now for all of you listening, guys and gals out there, I wanna tell you so — number one, Jeff and I are gonna have a lot of fun as you can already see. But one of the other reasons that Jeff and I have so much fun, and one of the other reasons why I keep having Jeff back is because whenever Jeff comes on, I pull up my notebook. Okay. Because I'm already taking notes on what Jeff is saying. So with the squad leader — and we didn't even plan to go talk about this today but since you brought it up — with that squad leader and it being a slight leadership position is that the type of thing that people start to realize, exists and they start to vie for that position as they see that as upward mobility within your company? They use it that way. 

Jeff J Hunter: Yeah, it is. We have three new squad leaders actually that just have been promoted. We do a lot of promotion from within. The squad leader position is not something that we hire for, it's something that you earn from within. So obviously you're rewarded by your ethics by those three things we talked about on the last one, which is adaptability, work ethic, and give a damn. Right?

Those are the three things that we look for in every person. So, if they are demonstrating that, they're timely on their end — how can I have someone who's gonna be checking other people's end of day reports and attendance who ain't good at their own attendance and if they report? So obviously people that demonstrate that they have the capacity and ability to do that are gonna be given the opportunity. 

Atiba de Souza: Yeah, that's awesome. That's great. That's a really good idea. And I'm thinking through my team right now at some obvious squad leaders that I can use that with — 'cause we're right at 15. 

Jeff J Hunter: Oh, wow. That's good. 

Atiba de Souza: Right. 

Jeff J Hunter: Anything over 10 is like — earlier I was kind of like, it was cool at 40 people. I mean, it was a lot of stress for my team. Like it was cool for me 'cause I — like my shirt says, "Whenever life hands me lemons, my virtual assistant deals with that."

 But in all reality, it's better to start thinking about it right now.

Atiba de Souza: Yeah. I'm going to and I think we'll implement that. Still in communication, we do quarterly meetings. We do a quarterly, all hands meeting. Do you guys do anything like that? Like at 160, how do you manage that? 

Jeff J Hunter: Yeah, I do. So I have a leadership call every day and actually my team's probably gonna listen to this, so I'll be careful what I say, but I have been debating on if it's worthwhile to do. I mean, it's only a 15 minute call. But we use the instant communication tools, like Discord so much that I don't know if it's a worthwhile 15 minutes of my day.

It's everyone just saying "Yeah, no report for me. I already discussed it in Discord." Once in a while we'll have a couple issues but I would much rather if somebody has an issue to say, "Hey, let's have a call, we have an issue." The problem is sometimes that culturally, especially if you're dealing in the Philippines, some people don't bring up issues until it's too late.

And that was the idea behind the call. So there's still an internal debate on whether is that valuable, but considering it's only 15 minutes a day for two businesses, so I have VA Staffer, I have Branded Media, so I have 15 minutes for VA Staffer and 15 minutes for Branded Media. And actually that call's coming up in 40 minutes.

So I have that call boom, boom, back to back 15 minutes for each company and usually it's less than that. So I think in all reality, I do have all hands call. I try to have it once a month, but they usually get turned into once a quarter, it's just hard to arrange 160 people on a call.

 Plus we have different work schedules and things like that where like probably half the team can't make it. I'm not a huge fan of like huge company wide calls, especially now, as a business owner, if you think about it, even if it's a half hour call and you have 150 people on it. That's an expensive call for everybody, right? And it's usually over time, right? So —

Atiba de Souza: Yeah. It is an expensive call for sure. There's no doubt about it. Even the way we do it, so we need to do it either, it's after hours, usually. And we usually do it as a dinner where they actually invite their family and I buy their family dinner. 

Jeff J Hunter: Wow.

Atiba de Souza: But it's still an expensive call. 

Jeff J Hunter: Yeah. And of course at 15 people not so bad, but thing —

Atiba de Souza: At 160 that's like —

Jeff J Hunter: Yeah, 'cause imagine when you get to 50 people or whatever, and they're like, "Hey, how can you start doing the dinner?" You know, it's like —

Atiba de Souza: Right. And you're like because it was expensive at 15. 

Jeff J Hunter: Yeah, exactly.

Atiba de Souza: Yeah, no, I get it. But we have still have to do something to keep morale and the comradery of the overall team. But you mentioned something in just now about culturally and in culture, different cultures not wanting to bring up problems and issues, which again, when you're looking at overseas and you're dealing with a different culture is a reality and causes major communication challenges.

So, how do you deal with that? You know how you deal with it in your leadership team, but has it filter on down through the ranks, if you will?

Jeff J Hunter: Well, I think a lot of it just goes back to the hiring and the types of people that you hire. And, I think obviously self-motivation is really key in preventing some of the issues that pop up, especially when you have a hundred percent remote team, like all of my team's remote, even me. I'm working here, I'm in my boxers, we're chilling right now.

I actually, miraculously am wearing shorts today. I think it's because I went for a walk last night and I just haven't changed. 

Atiba de Souza: Hey, this is real talk, right? This is real talk. 

Jeff J Hunter: Well, I made that post the other day and is still getting comments on a man about this famous author. He says, "Oh, you want your life — like everybody should be going back to the office — do you want your life to just be chilling in your pajamas at work?" And I'm like, "Yeah, actually that's exactly how I envisioned it."

Atiba de Souza: Yes. Yes. 

Jeff J Hunter: So with that said though, when you have people at home in pajamas, how do you take them to take your work seriously? Right? And a lot of that just comes down to the demeanor. I think that's why one of the things that we do is and we did briefly talk about this on the last one is that I have an experiential hiring process.

So we're giving people work to do before they even get an interview to join the team. So we, for example, I'll take a recording like this, a video call like this. Usually I'll take a real staff call or a team call, or maybe even a client call if the client gives permission. And we'll just give them a little empty note.

We call a meeting minutes template where it's like attendees. Objective. What are the discussion? What are the challenges faced? What are the opportunities? And then boom, what are the action items? And we'll see if they're able to fill in the blank from the call.

I don't trust a resume. I don't trust a CV. I don't even trust interview. Like they can tell me all sorts of stuff they can do, but I'm done with that.

I've hired hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people to get to the 150 plus that we have now. 

Sadly, because I hired a lot of people that looked cool and they said cool things, but they just couldn't do the work.

Atiba de Souza: Right. Yeah. We've been there. We understand that. And that's the reality. And I love the experiential piece of it. And I think it's so important. Show me that you actually can do this work. I had Dennis Yu on a couple weeks ago. Good friend of both of ours.

By the way, he said to tell you hello when we spoke. And Dennis put it probably the best that I've ever heard anybody say it. He said the reality of the virtual assistant international worker, whatever you wanna call it market is you get the opportunity to hire within the best 2% of the world. It's not that you can hire from the entire world. It's that you can hire in the best 2% of the entire world. 

As you talk about giving them work to do before they're even hired and having them prove that they can, that's what it's about, right? Because like you said, you can't trust a CV.

You can't trust even the interview. Right? We can't get enamored by those things. That's really great.

Jeff J Hunter: And you know, people can say whatever they want. Right?

Atiba de Souza: They sure can. Now, one of the ways that — 

Jeff J Hunter: I'll tell you this. Sorry to interrupt that point but what I've learned is that C players know how to copy a player resumes.

Atiba de Souza: Let's put a pin right here and talk about this for just one moment. Okay. And I wanna share — this is real talk guys. I wanna share this with you guys, 'cause as you start looking more and more in the virtual market for workers, what Jeff said is so very true. We hire a lot of video editors and graphic designers and I can't tell you how many times multiple people have sent me the same work and said that they did it. 

Just let that sink in, right? 

Jeff J Hunter: The dramatic pause.

Atiba de Souza: Well, they call me the king at a dramatic pause. So there you go. But that's why you've gotta test them. Now, speaking on the testing of workers, what we do is we have a set project per role that we're hiring. Even though we don't need the work done, we give everyone the exact same project, just so that we have a benchmark to compare everyone.

Do you do something similar or do you do it differently? 

Jeff J Hunter: We've had some instances even during the training — you're gonna love this. This is perfect. 

Atiba de Souza: Oh, boy. 

Jeff J Hunter: We've had some instances even during training where like 'cause we usually do 'em in blocks of 10. Like we'll hire 10 people. Say a hundred people apply, getting 10 would be like amazing.

We never get 10 from a hundred people. We probably get 3%, 4%, 5% of applicants or worth even having interview letting alone hiring. But we had a situation where we hired this whole batch of people and two people turned in the same report with different names on it. And were like, "Huh, that's weird."

Why would this report look the same? It was word for word type thing. And then we had to determine, okay, which one copied from who? Right? We found out that one of the team members, basically sent their google doc to the manager to review for an assignment that was done.

And then someone probably was like, "Oh, there it is." And clicked on the thing and then like copied and pasted it to her own. And it was like, "How did she think we were gonna see that?" I think that — we give people ample opportunity to prove themselves, and I think that really in life cheaters really do never prosper.

Work ethic is really important. I know it's kind of off the beaten path from your original question, but I think the real important piece is just that you give people the ability to prove themselves.

And whatever they do, believe them. It's kind of like you're giving them the opportunity to show themselves. And usually they do pretty well. They present themselves that they will present the truth, usually. 

Atiba de Souza: Yes. But, so again guys, real talk. So I had an interview this morning 'cause there's somebody that we're hiring for a position. We're actually hiring for three different positions and so much like you in that we hiring batches as well and hiring multiple positions at the same time. So we can double or triple up on the onboarding and not do it one at a time. But either way. So we're hiring for this position, transcriptionist to be exact. And this young lady shows up. It's a 30 minute interview and she shows up eight minutes late. Now, the only reason I was even still on Zoom was because I forgot that I was still on Zoom more probably by five minutes late. I'm done.

I'm gone. But I started working on something else and Zoom was on the second screen and I just totally forgot it was up then until I see this pop up. Someone is waiting in the waiting room. I'm like, "Oh man, she's here. It's eight minutes late though." And she comes on and she doesn't even apologize for being late. Not even a recognition that she was late. She just started the interview like everything was normal that she was early. 

Jeff J Hunter: Wow.

Atiba de Souza: Now guys and this is what Jeff was saying earlier, her resume is awesome. Her work history is awesome. Our back and forth conversation that we've had on — I'm saying that we had, it was really with my team and I'm just reading it before the interview — was great. But now she actually showed up and showed who she is. And this is what Jeff is saying, believe what they tell you.

Jeff J Hunter: Believe what they show you. 

Atiba de Souza: Sorry. 

Jeff J Hunter: Not what they tell you.

Atiba de Souza: Correct. Believe what they show you. Excuse me. Excuse me. Thank you. Yes. Believe what they show you.

Jeff J Hunter: Yeah.

Atiba de Souza: She'll never be earlier than eight minutes to an another meeting. 

Jeff J Hunter: If that's the effort they show you trying to get the job, imagine once they get the job.

Atiba de Souza: Yeah. Yeah. It's "whew." Okay. So let's shift focuses a little bit because you've mentioned Discord a few times and I'm going to guess that most people don't know Discord. I know Discord honestly because of my kids. 

Jeff J Hunter: Gaming.

Atiba de Souza: I'm not gonna lie here, confuses me. But I only know it because my kids use it. But let's talk about communication tools and also project management tools.

 What do you guys use? What do you suggest? Are there different things to use at different times? 

Jeff J Hunter: Woo. All right. I'll tell you what I do. So the main reason why we use Discord, we used to use Slack.

The reason we use Discord is because Slack got really expensive once I got over a hundred people. It's like $10 a person.

So now you're talking 150 people, that's 15 hundred bucks a month for a chat program. Right? And I'm like, not that I'm a cheapskate or whatever but Discord can do just as much. And actually, I think you guys would be kind of mind blown just with everything that Discord can do.

It has some really cool bot integrations and because it's got a bunch of gaming nerds in there, there's a lot of cool like downloadable type bots. Well, they're not technically downloadable. They're kind of like zaps. You can zap to it. Zapier does work with it.

So like all of our payment processors, we have a payments channel. So every time a payment comes in, it sends it to the channel and it tags the management team. Every time a payment's failed, same thing, sends it over, payment failed. We also have the attendance channel, so people come in, they hit their attendance and then we have all the squad channels. Squad one to 10 or whatever.

And then we also have our project management channel. We have each of the teams. We have four teams — on top of the squads — we have four teams. We have a creative team. We have a copywriting team, social media team, web team. That are not squads. Those are their own teams. And then if projects are big enough to where they warrant an actual discussion.

So like we have a client who's pretty big, we'll throw a channel in there just to talk about that project. So — 

Atiba de Souza: Gotcha. 

Jeff J Hunter: Then there's the project communication plan which obviously instant communication isn't the best for that 'cause then it's not really chronological. It's kind of like all over the place.

You don't have task management in there. So we use something called ActiveCollab. The same reason we use ActiveCollab is the same reason why we use Discord because Asana and whatever else, they want you to — 10, 12, some of 'em $15 per person to log in there.

And that's not including the clients. A lot of 'em you have to pay for your clients as well. And we have well over 200 clients. 200 plus, 150. Now you're looking at 350 and even if it's a 10 bucks a pop that's 35 hundred bucks a month for a project management tool. So we use ActiveCollab self-hosted so we pay 15 hundred bucks a year, I think for a license.

And then, we have it hosted on our server which is a couple hundred bucks a month. A lot of those decisions are just from growing pains where we got to a certain size and said, "Oh guys, we kind of should figure this out, 'cause you know, that's a lot of money and I'm bootstrapped. A hundred percent bootstrapped.

I've never taken investor. I've never taken anyone's money. So everything that I've done has been motivated by how can we grow and be effective, but not break the bank.

Atiba de Souza: Wow. So you just gave us the topic for the next time we're which is "How to grow to 160 people from bootstrap?" 

Jeff J Hunter: That's tough. That's an eight year experiment. You know? 

2014 is when I started this company officially. 2016 is when I put on the gas. I think I probably had 10, 12 people. By the end of 2016, I was up to about 27, I believe. Something like that. Then it was like 40. And then when I hit 47, this was in 2020 right before COVID. I was at like 47 people when COVID hit. We're talking absolutely explosive growth went from 47 to 150 in like a year and a half.

Atiba de Souza: It's called a COVID success story. 

Jeff J Hunter: Yeah.

Atiba de Souza: But it's a COVID success story because he was prepared for it too. 

Jeff J Hunter: Well, in all reality, in 2019 I used to have to convince people why they need a remote team. And then when COVID happened, the pandemic, it was like nobody — I've never had to sell a remote team ever. Ever since then. Like people were like, "Oh yeah, cool."

Atiba de Souza: Yeah. Yeah. That sounds real easy, but if it wasn't for 2014, through 2019, you wouldn't have been able to do that in 2020.

Jeff J Hunter: Absolutely.

Atiba de Souza: And that's the key to guys is you've gotta be ready. As business owners, it's not always gonna be pretty and it's not always gonna be easy.

Matter of fact, most of the times, it isn't pretty. And most of the times it isn't easy.

Jeff J Hunter: Amen.

Atiba de Souza: Especially in the beginning. Especially in the beginning. But if you know you're on the right path, you gotta stay on that path and you gotta fight through it because when opportunity hits, if you are not prepared, you'd be outta luck.

And people say all the time, that luck is when opportunity and preparedness meet. 

Jeff J Hunter: Oh, look at this, Tony Robbins coming, Atiba. Atiba-Tony.

Atiba de Souza: Okay. All right. But It's so true though. 

Jeff J Hunter: It's true. It is true.

Atiba de Souza: It is so true. And Jeff is living proof of that. Right? You've got to be ready. 

Jeff J Hunter: I replace the word luck with timing. Think of it like you're out in the sea, man. Like it's dead out there. You're stuck. You're stranded. And then what do you doing while you're stuck and stranded? You sit there and like cry and try to fish and whatever, or you're gonna get the hell out of there and you're gonna make a sail?

The person who's making the sail while there's no win, that's the person that wins. That's what's happening right now. You should be building that sail because that wind is coming. You're gonna go for that ride.

Atiba de Souza: Yep. Yep. It's one of the things that I love about life. The metaphor of the seasons. If you are not preparing in the fall and the winter for the spring, spring will come and you will have nothing. Summer will come and you'll be dead. 

But you've gotta mend that sail to use your analogy that you've gotta be building that sail when there's no wind. So when the wind comes, you can catch it. 

Jeff J Hunter: The analogy for the day. I came up with something good. Yeah, baby.

Atiba de Souza: Oh, man. Okay. So that's it. We gonna do that the next time, man. We gonna talk about this bootstrap to 160 people and that journey, that eight year journey. 

Jeff J Hunter: Let's do it.

Atiba de Souza: Okay. Jeff, we've said it a couple times, but I want you to say it officially. How do people find you if they're looking for, or to build their remote team? 

Jeff J Hunter: is our pre-vetted, trained team. We specialize in executive assistance. So, basically someone who — like Jacqueline who always arranges our call. Like the one that we had today, right? Like Jacqueline is my assistant. She arranges my calls. She does my email. She's on all of my calls with me.

She probably feels really weird not being on here, 'cause she usually is on all my calls, taking notes. 

Atiba de Souza: Sorry, Jacqueline. 

Jeff J Hunter: Yeah, exactly. You know for a fact she's already listening to this on the recording. So we focus on that I don't want it to turn into a sales pitch or whatever, but would love for you guys to connect with me on LinkedIn 'cause on LinkedIn, I try to drop a lot of bombs on there.

I just dropped the bomb on my Facebook last night and I haven't even had a chance 'cause you're the the first thing I did when I woke up was come over to my computer and I'm like Atiba. Atiba time, baby. I haven't even checked my phone yet. A matter of fact, just a second ago I went, "Oh crap", 'cause my phone fell off my desk while we were talking. The little vibration thing, but yeah — and connect with me just Jeff J. Hunter. If you go to Google and type in Jeff J. Hunter, I'm now officially Google verified. So like — 

All my socials will pop up. So come at me.

Atiba de Souza: No, and seriously get at him because Jeff does drop some great bombs on social media and it's not just great bombs, but it's also great conversation. 

Stuff to make you think and stuff to really talk to other people who are just like you. Dealing with stuff, looking at different things in your business and how you manage things. 

Jeff J Hunter: Atiba, the post I made, it was just like a random thought that I had before I went to sleep last night because one of my friends invested like $15,000 in this personal development. He's probably gonna get a lot out of it. Don't get me wrong. Personal development I believe is really important, but at the same time, I know where this person's at in their business.

And I'm like, you know what $15,000 could do? If you instead of paid $15,000 to learn and to grow, if you paid $15,000 for people to do something for you. People want to talk about their personal brand. People want to be learning about strategies and stuff like that. And dude, for me for $10,000 over the past 30 days, I could probably have somebody build you a funnel, probably record a crap ton of social media videos for your personal brand. Can do all these different things that you could do and actually be done with, right? Instead of going through personal development and stuff and don't get me wrong, I think there's a stage in your life where like you need personal development, but dude, once you've got a business and you're rolling, like just hire people to do shit.

Atiba de Souza: Yeah. I think that the key word is balance and knowing what and when and how much.

Jeff J Hunter: Yeah. And like I said earlier in this call, one of the most important things I ever learned in my life was to get myself out of doing everything. As soon as I was able to remove myself and feel comfortable doing it'cause there's a power struggle, like a control struggle I think that we all face as entrepreneurs.

And it's important to know that yes, you can do everything, but that doesn't mean you gotta do everything yourself.

Atiba de Souza: That's right. You know what, that's the next next call we're gonna do to. Unnest that power struggle. Because that power struggle is very, very real. And I know for me, it took time and I'm now in a place where we don't — if we think of something new, it's not how am I gonna do this thing.

It's okay, who's going to this?

Jeff J Hunter: Yeah. It's not what, but who . It's not how, but who.

Atiba de Souza: And how do I structure it? Well enough that I can just give it to you? You can bring it back to me and we can go through, bring it back to whoever needs to and go through it. Because I could do it, but for what?

Jeff J Hunter: It comes back to that. It comes back to that crazy three letter word. Why?

Atiba de Souza: Yeah. Yeah. So alright, brother. Thank you so much for your time. I know you've gotta run to do your two staff meetings. Say hello to the staff for me. All right. Tell Jacqueline, she'll get to listen to this real soon. 

Jeff J Hunter: That's it. Hey, we gotta take our screenshot, man. You gotta take our screenshot. Let's go. Let me take our screenshot. Go. That's it. That's it right there. That's it. Got you. I got you. 

Atiba de Souza: Make sure to send that to me. 

Jeff J Hunter: I will. Thanks for having me on the show as always. And hopefully people get some stuff out of this, man. I hope you get a good responses.

Atiba de Souza: Well, you know what? We get stuff out of this. If y'all don't get anything out of this, that's on y'all because Jeff drop some gem. Let me just be straight. We have fun hanging out with each other. Not but seriously. Jeff's right, man. Listen to this and get some good stuff. All right, everybody. We'll see you later.


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