The Right Team Makes All the Difference: Mickey Anderson on the Importance of Hiring

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Do you ever wonder why it's important to have the right people on your team? 

If you're like most business owners, you know the importance of having a great team when it comes to having a successful business. As the saying goes, "you're only as good as the people you surround yourself with." This is especially true in business. The right employees will have the skills and knowledge necessary to help your business grow and thrive. They'll also be able to work well with others, providing a positive and productive work environment. 

After all, they are the ones who will be responsible for helping your business grow and thrive. They'll also be the ones who interact with customers and create a positive work environment. 

In this episode, I had the opportunity to catch up with Mickey Anderson and discuss the importance of having the right people on your team. She is an expert in communication and knows how to help brands connect with their customers. 

Mickey Anderson Headshot

Mickey Anderson of Mickey Anderson

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Atiba de Souza: Hey, everybody! Welcome to another episode of Build Your Team. Now, let me just say this. This person that I have on today, that I have the pleasure to have on today, every time we've gotten together, we have had a fantastic time and made magic. If you're following on social, you've already been introduced to her because I've gotten to share some of the magic that we've made before when we met. Mickey Anderson is one of the absolute gems in the industry when it comes to communication and helping you understand how to communicate as your brand.

And as always, we are brought to you by Client Attraction Pros, helping thought leaders make video marketing fun, easy, and painless.

Atiba de Souza: So I'd like you to help me introduce her or welcome her. No. I'm introducing her. We gotta welcome her. Yeah. Welcome her to Build Your Team as we get today to talk about team building. So Mickey, welcome my dear.

Mickey Anderson: Thank you so much for having me.

Atiba de Souza: The pleasure is mine. pleasure is all mine. Now, I gotta ask you as we start, so I know you're in Ottawa and I am not enjoying right now in life because it's cold.

And I had to be outside in the cold for five hours yesterday and it was absolutely awful. 

Mickey Anderson: What do you define as cold?

Atiba de Souza: Right. So that's why I was gonna ask you how cold is there in Ottawa? Cause in the forties, but the wind was blowing and so I know right there that head nod and shake was like — I saw it. I saw it. Go ahead. Tell me. 

Mickey Anderson: Currently it's beautiful actually. So we're in Celsius here and I wanna say it's 15 degrees Celsius. So it's actually quite warm. It's not bad, but in a few short weeks it will plummet and typically in about January, February, we get to minus 40 degrees Celsius here, which is where the Celsius and Fahrenheit meet in the vortex of cold.

So yeah. It gets better. There's two to three minute frostbite warning, but we know how to prepare and dress for winter here. We don't let it stop us.

Atiba de Souza: It's not me. 

Mickey Anderson: It gets pretty boring. It gets pretty boring here if you don't tolerate it.

Atiba de Souza: I'd probably be bored. I'd probably be bored. Yeah, I'm sorry. I dunno how you do it. But we're not here only to talk about weather, but I wanted to start with something, Mickey and you and I have had a chance to talk about this before and so I kind wanna bring everybody in on this conversation because I think this is a real conversation that plays out in the minds of so many entrepreneurs, and it's one that a lot of us are really afraid to even verbalize. Heck, some of us are even afraid to think about. Like, we start the thought and end the thought before we can finish and work all the way through the thought, right? And that is, there's an insecurity that exists that I'm the only one facing these problems, especially when it comes to hiring a team. So tell me, in your experience working with your clients and yourself, how have you seen that insecurity, and what do you say to an entrepreneur who's even having that inkling of feeling right now?

Mickey Anderson: You know, especially at the beginning, many entrepreneurs are worried and insecure that they're the only ones who don't know how to hire or find the right people. They're the only ones who don't know how to prepare or train a new person, and they have no idea how they're gonna keep this person to get this person to stay around.

And what they do is they isolate themselves. They don't share this because of the insecurity.

And I can tell you insecurity breeds isolation and isolation breeds insecurity. And the more you isolate yourself from the people and the resources that can help you, the less likely you are to take those steps towards getting better.

And so you have to open yourselves up and be vulnerable. You have to be able to share it with others, peers, mentors that I have no idea what I'm doing. Cuz you know what? Most of us don't. We're all figuring it out along the way and the only way to figure it out is to take action and start trying. That's it.

And so you have to be able to break through that fear and the insecurity, have a conversation or ask for help, cuz that's the only way support is gonna come knocking at your door. No magic wand is going to cast a spell and make you magically great at building a team. It's something we all have to work at and do our due diligence with.

Atiba de Souza: No, absolutely. It's interesting. We did not plan this, okay? I want you to know we did not plan to talk about weather because somehow we were gonna relate weather to hiring a team. But there was something that you said just a little while ago that you know when the temperature drops that low in Ottawa, if you don't know how to prepare for it, if you don't prepare for it, if you don't learn how to deal with it, then you're going to be alone because you're gonna be in your house and you can't go anywhere.

And that is isolation that then breeds insecurity. 

Mickey Anderson: Mm-hmm. 

Atiba de Souza: And it's almost the same thing here that we're saying in business with hiring a team. The temperature's going to drop. It's going to get cold. It's going to get frigid in your attempt to build your team. But if you don't align with — and this is what you were saying — if you don't align with other people who can teach you how to insulate yourself to keep yourself warm, then you're gonna get stuck in your house doing all the work by yourself, burnt out and hating life, business, and worst of all your family.

Mickey Anderson: I can give you a great example. In Canada, we have a lot of immigrants who move here from warmer places from all over the world. They come into Canada and they think, I'm gonna go and buy the most expensive coat. I'm going to buy the most expensive gloves. I'm gonna buy 80 layers of things because that's gonna keep me warm.

And instead of talking to anyone, they Google best and warmest and yada, yada, yada and they go out and spend a fortune on a bunch of stuff and then they experience the first winter and realized that none of it works. They can't see, they can't move their arms, they've got too many layers, the stuff is either overpriced and doesn't work, or it's just over the top.

And what they should have done was just talk to a local, said, "Hey, if I was gonna buy one thing, what would you tell me to buy?" Most of us would say, "You know what? It's less about the coat, and it's more about the base layers. Buy yourself some good base layers and then whatever coat you have will work better. But if you buy an expensive coat and you don't have good base layers you're gonna be very uncomfortable". And I think it's very similar when it comes to building a team. You assume that because you're the only one in your business, you're the only one who knows. I have critical information about the way my business works, so I'm the only person who could possibly solve this problem and find the right person.

That is your ego. That is not the truth. I am sorry. I'm here to break it to you. You are not the only person able to help you solve this problem. There are so many people out there, so many resources out there that you can tap into and not just to learn what works, but to see what other people do that you don't like.

Because if you stay isolated in your lane with only what you know, you will never grow, especially as a leader. So you have to open yourself up and have those conversations.

Atiba de Souza: Yeah. That's awesome. One of the interesting things here on the how, Mickey, is oftentimes guests say great things and then I come in with a hammer and say, "This is what they said that you need to hear and boom, and hit you over the head. Well, you just brought the hammer on that just now, and so I appreciate the role reversal here.

So now I'm going to soften and give it back to you because I think there's also a very important point in there because there's so many people gonna push back against what you just said and what you just said is so true. Okay? And I'm gonna say, but you don't know my business and my business is unique and my business is different and they go on and on and on about all of that stuff. It is ego. You're absolutely right. And there is a smidgen of truth to what you're saying, ladies and gentlemen, to yourselves. But that smidgen of truth is not great enough for you to allow your ego to make it as big as it's made it.

So Mickey, this is where I want you to tell me how you feel and where you resonate with this. Most of us who are listening to the show, you started your business because you saw a problem in the world and you said, "It needs to be solved, and I've got a better way to solve it than everyone else".

That's why you feel like your business is unique. That's why you feel like your business is special and nobody else can get it. That's also the ego that's growing inside of you that's going to cause your failure. Not just in hiring but also — and Mickey and I want you to even — let's go past hiring for a minute. Even tell me how you feel this in your profession of helping people communicate.

Mickey Anderson: You know, it's so true. We rationalize ourselves out of a lot of things. Although it might be true and a rational statement, your business is different.

Every business is different. What is the definition of insanity? the same thing and expecting a different result. And I think we rationalize ourselves out of taking action, out of fear of failure. All the time in entrepreneurship, and we have a high risk tolerance as entrepreneurs, especially when it's ourselves taking the risk.

But when other people are involved, that's when we start to question ourselves. That's when we start to hold back because, "Oh my goodness, this could affect someone else, their livelihood." And that's when we start to rationalize and stop. And so really, first off, we have to address the fears. What am I most afraid of?

What is the worst case scenario? Why am I so resistant to this option, to listening, to opening up to looking around? What am I so afraid of? And then that's the thing you need to address first. Because if you can't get over your own fears and insecurities around failure, you're not going to grow your business past where it is right now.

That's going to be the plateau upon which you stay. My background is in psychology. We can rationalize ourselves around anything, and this is so common for so many entrepreneurs, so the way that I like to address it with most entrepreneurs is first, let's address the fear. What are you most afraid of?

Second, what is the best possible scenario here? What is the ideal outcome? What would just make this whole problem go away? Let's stop focusing on the fear and the potential for failure, and start focusing on the opportunity and potential for growth because you're going to get what you focus on. So let's make sure that we choose importantly.

Atiba de Souza: Say that again. You're going to get —

Mickey Anderson: what you most focus on. And so you need to choose what you focus on with care, and it should be the opportunities and the potential for growth, not the risks and fear. It's okay to have a healthy dose of risk and fear, but it can't be the only thing your priority, your focus.

Atiba de Souza: And I want y'all to hear that because as entrepreneurs, heck as human beings, this is a lesson that is so critical. You get what you focus on, like that's — you're gonna make it bigger and manifest it even more. 

Mickey Anderson: Have you ever had an employee or somebody on your team come up to you with a problem? And I've had this happen many times where people will come up and every day they come up with a new problem and I'm sitting here like, "Okay, but what are our options?" Then they go, "I don't know." And my response is typically the same, "It's okay. Well, if you could spend equal amounts of time focusing on the problem as you do options for solutions, and then come to me with both, I think we could probably figure this out, but if you just keep coming with problems and expecting me to solve them for you, we're not gonna get anywhere." And I think that's really what it's about for most of us, it's we get really hyper fixated on the things we fear most, and so we create more of it and we become paralyzed that flight, freeze, fun, like you're gonna paralyze yourself and you're not gonna take the action you need to. And so we need to be able to reframe our mind and focus on the goals and the opportunity and the solutions. So instead of fixating on the problems and the issues, let's look at all the different solutions and weigh them for what they are.

And I personally love to start with the bad ideas. Get them out of the way. What's the worst possible thing we could do to solve this problem? It can be a good chuckle sometimes. And break the ice for the group, right? Like, how's the worst way we could do this? What would we do if we were everyone else?

How could we copy everyone else? And then let's start thinking of some other options. And eventually a good idea is going to come about. But you gotta give it time and you gotta be willing to put bad ideas on the table.

Atiba de Souza: Absolutely. That's really good. I was in Austin, the other day and I had a conversation with a gentleman who works directly for Richard Lindner, who we both know right from Digital Marketer, and we were talking about this exact situation.

One of the things with Richard is there are times when I go to him and I say, "Hey Richard, I have this problem, and what should I do? And Richard's response often is, "I don't know. You figure it out. Let me know."

And it's the reality that if you come to Richard and say, "Hey, I have this problem and here are some possible solutions." Richard's willing to sit there with you and help you go through and think through. But if you just come with a problem —

Mickey Anderson: That's life. What a great analogy for life right there, right? Problems are gonna show up in your lap every single day, and if all you do is focus on the problems, you're not gonna get out of bed most mornings, right? You have to be willing to look at the options and the solutions and the possibilities and start just taking action. That's it.

Atiba de Souza: Let's not bring that back around to hiring a team just yet because I wanted people to get to know you a little bit. How does that play out in your business and what you do and what you do for your clients?

Mickey Anderson: I ran an agency with a team for a long time and, running a team is hard, but I think I'm very fortunate. So my father was the CEO of a couple global enterprises. Brilliant man teaches leadership and I learned everything I know about business from him and he taught me something early on that I have kept with me through my agency days into now and my solo consultant days where I'm consulting companies on hiring and growing their team. And the thing that he told me, which resonated so well, and hopefully it will with your listeners, is growing a team is very much so like growing a sports team or building a sports team. It's very, very similar, whether it's a business or a sports team. And first and foremost, you gotta think about, "Okay, what are we trying to win here? What's the game we're playing and who are the key players that need to be there?"

And in your business there are certain tasks where you're gonna need your pro level players. And then there are certain tasks where you can get away with rec league, house league, and some in between. And so it's crucial that you are able to identify what roles you need and what type of a player you need in each of those roles.

And what you're gonna find is, when you are have those pro-level players, when you find the right people and worry less about the tasks and jobs they have, they are going to be the problem solvers who come in with solutions. But if all you do is focus on those house league players, those rec league players and filling tasks, you're gonna end up with a lot of problems.

And so you need to balance your team. And so when I'm advising a team, whether it's for myself when I'm bringing in contractors or team members for myself or for a company, it's really identifying, "Okay, do you have a key person who's a problem solver? Who comes to you with solutions? Or do you have a lot of people who identify problems?"

If that's the case, let's find that right person first because a lot of stuff you can get by with without having someone there. Right? There's a saying we have, and hopefully I can swear here, but it is better to have it whole than an asshole,

Atiba de Souza: Yeah, that's right.

Mickey Anderson: And so for me, a lot of times, instead of worrying about hiring a bunch of different people who are gonna do a decent job on a lot of different tasks, can I find that one person who's gonna come in and help me grow this business or those two people?

So find the right person, and those people, their energy, their character traits, that's what helps you develop their position in their role, right? Fill the bus with the right people and then you can help them pick the seats.

Atiba de Souza: Jim Collins baby.

Mickey Anderson: That's it.

Atiba de Souza: Yes. It's great that you quoted Jim there and I read that book in like 2002 and that was one of the things that stuck with me and good to great just getting the right people on the bus.

Get the right people on the bus. There are plenty of seats on the bus, but you put the wrong person in the wrong seat. You get the wrong person on the bus, literally, the bus shut down, but you get the right people in the bus, they'll find the right seat and make that thing go.

Mickey Anderson: It ties back to that talk about being proactive a lot. Because you can't reactively find the right people. You might get lucky, but for the most part, if you're looking for that superstar, that person, that is a proactive process and you have to be open to learn, open to discussion, open to a long term path of talent acquisition in order to get those people.

That's not a reactive moment of, "Oh no. Worst case scenario, I need somebody yesterday." And so if you plan on growing a high performance team, whether it's now or 10 years from now, start today, if not yesterday. Have those conversations, do the learning, prepare yourself as much as possible. That is how you get those star players.

Atiba de Souza: Yes, absolutely. I couldn't agree with you more there on that statement. Reactive hiring is the absolute worst. Because you're bound to compromise. 

I was helping someone hire someone just a couple weeks ago, and listening to the interview, you realize the question was what's the one trait that you are we're gonna realize later on about you? And they said, "You're gonna think I'm annoying." And you realize that they said that to you. And the reason that they said that to you is because they feel like they have to know everything before they can do anything in their job. Are you okay with that? I think I can deal with that. That's not a good answer. That's someone who's hiring out of desperation. 

Mickey Anderson: Yep. Yep. It's so true. Growing up, as a little kid, I used to sit and play on the floor underneath my dad's board table when he was in board meetings, right? Like that was my childhood . I'd be under the table while a really important board meeting was going on, and I'll never forget, I heard this so many times, it was "Hire Slow, Fire Fast."

And I have taken that with me. It is so true. It is so much better to take your time and find the right person than to settle for something that's not ideal. That's it. I was talking to somebody about this a few days ago. One of the big fears I hear when we're talking about this topic is, "Yeah, but what if I am being too picky? What if my standards are too high?"

And you hear this in relationships, , right? And you hear this in business, and I think it's really the same answer for both. But what do you want? It comes down to that. What do you want? And then you have to be committed to getting that. That's it. And if you're okay with settling because that's what you want, then that's what you're going to get.

But if you want the right person, you have to commit to doing your due diligence and taking the time.

Atiba de Souza: Yes. And really taking the time. I mean, if you are that picky — which by the way is not a bad thing — but if you are that picky, what I've found — and you tell me if you've seen this as well. I am not picky, but I need somebody and this person, they do 8 out of 10 of the things that I want that are really picky about. I'm just gonna go ahead and with them.

90 days later. Those two things are the worst two things that I cannot stand this person because of these two things.

Mickey Anderson: It's so true. The other thing I find too is it's typically people who are looking to hire that are that picky. It's they wanna replace themselves. I need someone who's just like me, who thinks like me, who works like me, who has a work ethic like me, who delivers like me, who does everything just like me, and I am sorry there is only one you.

You don't need another you. You need somebody to fill in the gaps. What are your weaknesses? Even though you might be afraid to say though. Find somebody who's those are their strengths. Magic will be made.

Atiba de Souza: Yes. That brings us full circle to a point that I make here on this show all the time, which is you have to hire for fit first. The beauty — and this is going back to the sports team analogy that you gave earlier. The beauty of hiring for fit is when you hire for fit, you're looking at what is needed to make this thing whole.

Where are the weaknesses? Where are its strengths? Where are its challenges and where does this new person fit into that? Right? 

Mickey Anderson: I agree.

Atiba de Souza: And to your point, the person who was like, I want someone just like me. Well, no. If there were two of you in your business, one of you would be unnecessary.

Mickey Anderson: It's that ego again.

Atiba de Souza: Okay. So let's go there. Ego and entrepreneurship, especially for — I'm gonna call 'em young entrepreneurs, those who have teams of five or less. Ego does play a big role because you wouldn't have started a company if you didn't have ego.

Mickey Anderson: Yep. Everybody has a healthy dose of ego. It's a part of being human.

Atiba de Souza: So it's not a bad thing. 

Mickey Anderson: No. It's something that we all just have to be aware of and I think with young entrepreneurs, especially when we're talking about this conversation, most of the time, at least in my experience in working with them, they value accomplishments and the ability to do a skill higher than they do character, at least when hiring at first. 

And in themselves, they judge themselves so harshly on their accomplishments, on their resume, on how much revenue they're making and less about the type of person they are. And you kind of have to flip the script a little bit when you're hiring for a high performance team because character cannot be trained. Skills can be trained. Tasks can be trained. And if you are a great leader, you can provide resources and training and the right atmosphere to make this person thrive. But you can't change their character. We have to let our egos down and stop valuing output so, so much and realize that output or accomplishment is a direct relation to this person's character and the environment I create.

If I nail those two things, productivity will increase, output will increase, achievement will increase. But if I don't create the right environment and I don't get the right character, I am done. And that is a hard shift. That's a hard pill to swallow for a lot of people because we don't know how to manage someone's character.

It's much easier to look at KPIs and accomplishments than it is to think about what kind of energy did I bring to the table today? Was I a motivator? Was I a demotivator?

Atiba de Souza: It's hard to put character on a scorecard. And like you said, boil it down to a number. But that is the key to hiring for fit. I was talking to a young lady the other day and she was looking to hire someone and she was asking my advice. She wanted to hire someone who was foreign and she's a very mild mannered, very sweet individual. And I said, "Yeah. And because of this, that's who you are and that's how you like to work and communicate. I wouldn't necessarily consider hiring someone from Eastern Europe if I were you. Their character and yours won't fit together."

Mickey Anderson: Culture plays a huge role. A lot of us like to think that we're very worldly and understanding of different cultures, but they're vastly different. And the way we communicate, the way we give and receive feedback, the way we deal with problems in particular varies based on culture.

If you're not aware of that and you're not able to roll with the punches, if you're not able to select and choose and deal with that proactively, you're gonna struggle cuz you're gonna find yourself feeling things that you don't enjoy feeling.

Atiba de Souza: Yes, absolutely. That's such a huge point. Off camera, we're talking about my recent trip to Germany and you lived in Germany for a while. It's not until you start traveling the world that you really understand how little you understand about other people's culture. Because there are so many little things that make up who you are and your expectations in communication. Case in point, we get a hotel. It's supposed to be a five star hotel. We got there. Got in the room with my wife and I, there are two twin beds and only one of them is made up.

Mickey Anderson: Welcome to Europe!

Atiba de Souza: And we called to the front desk and they're just like, "That is normal. That's what we do." 

Here in the States when you get a hotel room, everything is fresh and everything is clean. You go to the coffee pot, it's empty. The coffee pot had water in it, and you're sitting and you're wonder, "Is this left over? Did they clean it?" But that's the way they — and we're talking about minor little things that don't actually affect your life. But these are the things that culturally people bring, and that's where hiring for fit is so important to under understand.

Mickey Anderson: Yeah. It's a common problem that I see with people who start off hiring VAs at first without any real experience or understanding of what it's like to work with a contractor on a different continent in a different time zone with a completely different cultural understanding of communication.

Culturally problems, at least in Western culture, we just talk about them for the most part, right? It's not the case everywhere. And so unless you're able to express clearly what your expectations of this person are in terms of communication, problem solving. What happens when stuff doesn't work? That you're going to struggle.

And so I think it just all ties back to that being proactive. You have to know what your expectations of this person are in detail as well, and be able to communicate that. When I work with, I hire on contractors all the time for projects. And I have a few that continue to come back, and one of the things they always thank me for is at the beginning when we first started working together, I sent them a document and it was basically like the secrets on me, Mickey.

And it talked about what I think are my flaws, challenges they might arise when communicating with me, the best way to work with me, the worst way to work with me, how I prefer to problem solve. All of these little nitpicky things, just to let them know what it's like working with me so that they have a complete understanding of what to expect. 

One of the fastest and most surefire ways to lose trust is to be inconsistent or unexpected. If somebody doesn't know what to expect from you in terms of your mood, behavior, communication, anything, they will no longer trust you. They will feel vulnerable. And so you have to prep them.

They all joke and laugh cuz at first when they read it, they thought it was a joke and thought it was funny, and then they realized, "Oh man, she's serious." But it made everything so much easier because they understood what my biggest pet peeves were.

Atiba de Souza: Yes.

Mickey Anderson: Right off the bat.

Atiba de Souza: So I'm gonna parallel what you just said to something that I hope that most people can understand. That's why franchises work. Okay? Franchises work because no matter what McDonald's you walk into, the fry machine is always on the left, and the Mc Flury machine is always on the right.

There is consistency there, and you know exactly what to expect. You're going to get the same size container, you're gonna get the same burger, you're going to get the same. And that breeds trusting people. Because even though McDonald's may not sell the world's best hamburger, we all know that, people go back because they know exactly what they're going to get versus Bob's Burger next door, who may have a — actually not Bobby Flay. I shouldn't say Bob. Let's say Dan's burger next door. Might have a better burger, but you don't know. Now, I'm not advocating you eat McDonald's, by the way, that's not what I'm advocating here either. It just followed a point there though that your staff need that consistency with you. They need that even with you to know where you are, who you are, and what to expect. And I love that. The secrets on Mickey document. I am gonna ask you to send me a copy of that.

Mickey Anderson: Yes, of course.

Atiba de Souza: One of the things that I love with Mickey is, your art of communication is phenomenal, especially from the written perspective. Almost every time we've communicated in a written format and you sent me anything, I've then sent it to the team and said, "We need to copy this. My gosh, this was amazing." This is a segue too, for you to introduce, "Hey, Mickey Anderson."

Mickey Anderson: The benefits of being a former conversion copywriter.

Atiba de Souza: Yes.

Mickey Anderson: It definitely helps. So I work as a marketing consultant to business growth consultant, so I help small and micro-businesses grow. It's really that simple and it's how you position yourself in the market and how you communicate your value to anyone, and this ties to team building because your marketing doesn't end when the sale is done, and it's not just about customers and leads.

The way that you communicate your value also goes towards your team and how you're nurturing and acquiring talent and keeping talent. It all ties in together.

And so if you wanna learn more about me, you're welcome to go to Just like the song. I'm on all of the social media platforms as well @heymickeyanderson.

I do have a ton of free resources there to help small business owners grow their business, including my free content planning playbook, where you can learn to create six pieces of core content so you can make less content and convert more prospects. So that is there for you on the homepage.

Atiba de Souza: So definitely get that. And you also have an email thing that you did recently too.

Mickey Anderson: Yes.

Atiba de Souza: Tell us about that real quick, because I know emails a big — well, email is huge for everybody.

Mickey Anderson: Yes. Email is king. You have no control over algorithms, social platforms, you can lose every piece of content you've gone on Instagram or Facebook tomorrow, and there's nothing you can do about it, but your email list is yours. It's something that you get, you communicate directly with your ideal customers or your talent and it's yours to nurture. There's no algorithms to fight, but most small business owners are terrified. They don't know what to send, how often to send it, and they're afraid of being, quote-unquote, salesy. Let me tell you, you're not gonna sell anything unless you start to sell. And so I did a five day email marketing challenge where I helped small business owners from start to finish, build, grow, and nurture their email list, and I turned it into an online course that will be available soon coming into December. So you can check that out. But I do have tons of free resources. If you hop on my email list, you will be the first to know.

Atiba de Souza: So definitely hop on her email list. The challenge was great. Mickey is great. Her ability — and you've seen it here — to communicate with you, to share with you. The key here is for everyone who's listening, and I want you to hear this, we talked a lot about ego today. Maybe you've never assigned the term ego to where you are, but here's the deal.

We know that you didn't get into this business solely for ego. You got into this business to serve, and unfortunately, ego grows over time. It does, and it takes over, and sometimes you don't even realize that it's taken over. And the place that it takes over the most is in your communication. That's what people are starting to see. Whether it's your prospective team members, whether it's your prospective clients, whether it's your current clients or your current team members, you're communicating with all of them. And one of the beauties that Mickey brings to you is the ability to refocus your communication back to the reality that you're here to serve and remove the ego out of that communication to really reach your prospective clients and also your prospective team members at a level that they're going to appreciate and is really gonna resonate with them. Mickey, as always, you are a freaking gem.

Mickey Anderson: Right back at you, Atiba. Every time we get together, it's magic.

Atiba de Souza: Yes, so Go look her up. Go get those free resources and definitely get on her list to get that email course. Absolutely wonderful stuff. Mickey, thanks for being here, my dear. 

Mickey Anderson: Thank you so much for having me. 

Atiba de Souza: All right. Bye, everybody!

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